I am expected to take this country seriously. I do not. Abortion available in ALL countries where the corruption of Freemasonry infests the government like vermin. They steal and while they steal usually in the form of City, County, State and Federal contracts. The big Federal contracts are for the top layer the super rich. The Freemasons really are pawns in there game. It includes things like road building, schools on the county level etc. See Freemasonry isn’t some kind of creepy religion its about money. The religious mystical aspect of it is what they like to keep going i.e. illuminate and Masonic rites. They have there own bid process in going for local contracts. Every once in a while someone takes a hit for the team and is richer for it.

This government is nothing but a stronghold of lies. And well I give you this film sad as it is. This is one of the reasons I will never trust a word coming out of any of there mouths. The woman they put up for the high court recently was nothing but a joke on us. We took the day. If the link doesn’t highlight cut and put in your address bar. You might need a faster connection than dial up.

http://www.govideonow.com/LL/Hard_Truth.wmv

Agreed. Now, given that we are over there, what course now best satisfies biblical principles?

Assuming it is improper for us to be over there, what now, since we are over there. There is little doubt withdrawal tomorrow of all U.S. forces would very probably plunge the country into chaos and perhaps bloodier civil war. I think immediate withdrawal would be reckless endangerment of even more lives.

The goals seem to me to be: 1) Withdraw 2) After having done what is reasonably possible to at least attempt restoration of some civil stability, so that we do as little total destruction as possible.

Withdrawing is not a difficult goal to achieve. Load men and equipment on planes and ships and leave. I know it is actually a massive complex effort, but it is not one requiring debate of a philosophical nature.

The second goal is one I’m not sure I can answer, nor is it one I am sure I see how biblical principles help answer. Having that as a goal seems to be biblically-principled, but achievement of the objective seems to me very fact and circumstance specific. That being the case, I’m not honestly sure how achieving that goal would look a lot different than what is being done now.

Short of setting up a democratic government, perhaps escorting the dominant party to power and promising rebuilding aid for a limited period of time in exchange for them making some sort of guarantee to preserve peace and not initiate purges of political enemies as soon as we leave. Any aid we committed would surely pale in comparison to the amount spent on massive troop deployment.

That plan has all sorts of problems, too, but it seems to me it would be helpful to actually consider solutions. We’ve established that we shouldn’t be there. Perhaps focusing energies on solutions as to how to fix it would be worthwhile at this point.

M.A.B.

I found what I was looking for. Some have their own interests at heart and could care less for dying men.

Did you realize that mass media is a form of entertainment, not enlightenment?

-Turretinfan

Why take up the for and against side. See they love to stir people up about social issues. Gay marriage, abortion, pornography etc. So while we are chasing the shiny metal rabbit around the track. They are upstairs at the gate helping to rob the till.

Then never bring up the money on all the shows. CNN, FOX/CBS or ABC or even NBC. You think they would be debating this multi-trillion dollar budget in public. However they do not. Who’s going to build that fence across Texas? You do not know. It is a 28 billion dollar contract after all. I guess they will not be debating that however. You do know about the woman that just died, Oprah and other really pressing issues however. And since the affiliated companies of all these news organizations benefit in the form or Big government contracts. They will not soon be investigating themselves. So see there is something in it for them after all.

So you might want to find out who really owns Raytheon, Lockheed, Northrop Grumman, Colt firearms and Martin Marietta to name a few. I haven’t even started on the security companies that benefit and the smaller ones that supply them. One of the replyers might know something about that. Do you have no shame?

So one question I have is this. Now that we have Democratized Iraq. Another words forced conversion to the Democratic philosophy by the sword. Do they get nifty things that they never had that come with it. Like well abortion on demand through the ninth month. Unlimited pornography. Gay marriage. Houses of prostitution in there cites, strip clubs and government corruption that would choke a cow. After all they never would allow most of that before. We are so self-righteous now aren’t we?

When you make one of your whitewashed replies. Which I expect. You might want to take this into consideration. We are far from stupid and the people that come to this site for the most part are. Some of us actually follow God here and not the devil.

Great stuff (except for the fact that you might know what’s on the menu at Denny’s),

Greg

Yes, I never took you to mean that I am generally apathetic. I will even own your “charge” that I am apathetic about whether R’s or D’s are in power just so long as this is understood as not implying that I am apathetic about affairs political.

There is no need to use a title before my name. As at Presbytery, a simple “Mr.” will do.

Dean Butler is apparently indifferent between D’s and R’s. That does not make him apathetic in general, or apathetic even towards politics in general.

I do rue having produced so much confusing with the word “apathy.”

I hope that now, after several clarifications, you see what I’m saying.

-Turretinfan

If I’m neither for Buddhism nor for Hinduism am I then apathetic?

To suggest so is to miss the point altogether, quite the contrary, there is a deep concern, one is by no means neutral or indifferent with lack of emotion, but rather (in the case of Mr. B and the right/left dichotomy) has a rather firm position and alternative, one which amongst other things recognizes both alternatives as decisively wrong.

Moreover if what is being asserted is that Mr. B cares not as to whom will be elected, for reasons already mentioned, therefore he is apathetic, then surely one may ask, Does Mr. B not care about what will happen as a result of x or y being elected? For surely he does care and is by no means apathetic, it is just that all candidates as Mr. B argues will lead the country in the very same direction, thus whomever is elected at this point ultimately matters not, but from my perusal in times past of the accusations made against Mr. B as being apathetic, I never gathered (perhaps I’m mistaken) that those accusing him were merely attempting to state the obvious, that being on his view all candidates will ultimately render the same results.