Comments on: Buchenwald Inmate #2491: Christian martyr http://butler-harris.org/archives/264 How can you have the last word if you haven't heard the first? Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:07:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: TJH http://butler-harris.org/archives/264#comment-13023 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:03:34 +0000 http://butler-harris.org/archives/264#comment-13023 I am honored that Mr. Sanders added that comment. I too have found Germans to be non-compliant in political discourse, almost to a fault. (Sometimes I'm thinking, "do you have to argue about everything?"). On the other hand, I have found them in their business (e.g. waitresses, clerks, etc.) to be more polite and dutiful than the American in a similar role; the American is more apt to be surly and pre-occupied with own affairs. So at the risk of hasty generalization, I would say that Americans have something to learn from Germans in both roles. Look forward to getting the book by Green. I am honored that Mr. Sanders added that comment. I too have found Germans to be non-compliant in political discourse, almost to a fault. (Sometimes I’m thinking, “do you have to argue about everything?”). On the other hand, I have found them in their business (e.g. waitresses, clerks, etc.) to be more polite and dutiful than the American in a similar role; the American is more apt to be surly and pre-occupied with own affairs. So at the risk of hasty generalization, I would say that Americans have something to learn from Germans in both roles.

Look forward to getting the book by Green.

]]> by: steve hoffmeister http://butler-harris.org/archives/264#comment-12847 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:01:46 +0000 http://butler-harris.org/archives/264#comment-12847 dear tim, having talked about this book and then remembering our conversation it occurred to me the other day that like the Germans in 1930's and the Puritans in 16-1700s , the Evangelical Christian Coalition has not remembered its past history; and more than likely (if it has not already) will repeat this history. The sad part is that the Germans and Puritans i put on a higher mental plain than the Evan's... so that is even more interesting in a way. So now i ponder what will history show for this ignorance of the past... From the Bible it never was good.. dear tim,
having talked about this book and then remembering our conversation it occurred to me the other day that like the Germans in 1930’s and the Puritans in 16-1700s , the Evangelical Christian Coalition has not remembered its past history; and more than likely (if it has not already) will repeat this history. The sad part is that the Germans and Puritans i put on a higher mental plain than the Evan’s… so that is even more interesting in a way. So now i ponder what will history show for this ignorance of the past… From the Bible it never was good..

]]> by: Franklin Sanders http://butler-harris.org/archives/264#comment-12821 Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:56:51 +0000 http://butler-harris.org/archives/264#comment-12821 I am deeply grateful that Tim Harris has published a perceptive review of my translation of Wentorf's life of Paul Schneider. For all the confusing elements -- neo-orthodoxy among Hitler-resisters, conflict between Lutheran & Reformed, & lawful obedience to civil authority -- Schneider's life remains a Christian example to us when state-worship & secular religion are once again trying to replace Christianity. What? America like Nazi Germany? Why, never! Unhappily, it is true. Evangelical Christians have adopted a view toward obeying the state (Romans 13) worse than the Two Kingdom Doctrine of the Lutherans, far worse. As the conflict between Christianity and the state in Germany proved once again, whenever the church enters an uncritical & unconditional alliance with the state, it sets loose a catastrophe that eventually engulfs both church and state. I translated Paul Schneider's biography over 15 years ago, and was glad recently to find a new book about the Church-Struggle, "Lutherans Against Hitler: The Untold Story" by Lowell C. Green, published by Concordia. Although at times a painfully partisan Lutheran, Green's book still offers a wealth of detail that makes the subtle temptations of the Church-Struggle more understandable. How could the most Christian nation in Europe become overnight the most pagan? Green outlines the problem: the Nazis'subtle gradualism and playing one denomination off against the other, as well as the distrust and rivalries between Lutherans & Reformed and fractious personalities such as Barth. On top of this came the legitimate Two Kingdom's teaching of submission to lawful authority. The picture differs vastly from today's simple-minded idea that the Nazis were the embodiment of all evil and everyone could see that from the beginning. In 1933, with 2 out of 5 Germans unemployed, parliamentary confusion, the nation on its back, & the Nazis claiming to be Christian, their evil to come was not so plain. Green brings much more evidence of the Christian opposition to Hitler & the Nazis, something I was trying to do with my Schneider translation. God never leaves himself without faithful witnesses, and the picture of all Germany cravenly bowing down to Hitler is simply false and gravely insults the confessions of Paul Schneider and thousands of German Christians who died rather than "follow a multitude to do evil." More to the point, having lived & studied in Germany, I was astounded to learn that the American stereotype of Germans as robots was wildly inaccurate. Compared to Americans, they are rabid questioners of authority, far more independent and assertive. After all, on the Autobahn there are no speed limits. Thank you for drawing attention to Rev. Paul Schneider's life and martyrdom. I hope your readers will investigate the Church-struggle (Kirchenkampf) further to explode the myths and learn the inspiring truth, and lead Evangelical Christians to abandon their slavish subservience to the state, whether governed by Republicans or Democrats. Best wishes, Franklin Sanders I am deeply grateful that Tim Harris has published a perceptive review of my translation of Wentorf’s life of Paul Schneider. For all the confusing elements — neo-orthodoxy among Hitler-resisters, conflict between Lutheran & Reformed, & lawful obedience to civil authority — Schneider’s life remains a Christian example to us when state-worship & secular religion are once again trying to replace Christianity.

What? America like Nazi Germany? Why, never! Unhappily, it is true. Evangelical Christians have adopted a view toward obeying the state (Romans 13) worse than the Two Kingdom Doctrine of the Lutherans, far worse. As the conflict between Christianity and the state in Germany proved once again, whenever the church enters an uncritical & unconditional alliance with the state, it sets loose a catastrophe that eventually engulfs both church and state.

I translated Paul Schneider’s biography over 15 years ago, and was glad recently to find a new book about the Church-Struggle, “Lutherans Against Hitler: The Untold Story” by Lowell C. Green, published by Concordia. Although at times a painfully partisan Lutheran, Green’s book still offers a wealth of detail that makes the subtle temptations of the Church-Struggle more understandable. How could the most Christian nation in Europe become overnight the most pagan? Green outlines the problem: the Nazis’subtle gradualism and playing one denomination off against the other, as well as the distrust and rivalries between Lutherans & Reformed and fractious personalities such as Barth. On top of this came the legitimate Two Kingdom’s teaching of submission to lawful authority. The picture differs vastly from today’s simple-minded idea that the Nazis were the embodiment of all evil and everyone could see that from the beginning. In 1933, with 2 out of 5 Germans unemployed, parliamentary confusion, the nation on its back, & the Nazis claiming to be Christian, their evil to come was not so plain.

Green brings much more evidence of the Christian opposition to Hitler & the Nazis, something I was trying to do with my Schneider translation. God never leaves himself without faithful witnesses, and the picture of all Germany cravenly bowing down to Hitler is simply false and gravely insults the confessions of Paul Schneider and thousands of German Christians who died rather than “follow a multitude to do evil.”

More to the point, having lived & studied in Germany, I was astounded to learn that the American stereotype of Germans as robots was wildly inaccurate. Compared to Americans, they are rabid questioners of authority, far more independent and assertive. After all, on the Autobahn there are no speed limits.

Thank you for drawing attention to Rev. Paul Schneider’s life and martyrdom. I hope your readers will investigate the Church-struggle (Kirchenkampf) further to explode the myths and learn the inspiring truth, and lead Evangelical Christians to abandon their slavish subservience to the state, whether governed by Republicans or Democrats.

Best wishes,
Franklin Sanders

]]>