Trent Horn on Mormonism: Much in Common

The Catholic apologist Trent Horn is so invested in church authority over scripture, that he finds common cause with Mormons against Protestants! 

Note that this implies that the mere form hierarchical authority is more important than having apostolic authority behind it — since even he, I hope, denies that the Mormons actually have apostolic content in the fantasies of Joseph Smith, nor that they have any claim to succession of ordination from the apostles.

I think this is telling and should be pondered. In denying Sola Scriptura in favor of church authority, it ends up that revelation itself becomes a matter of indifference. Then, the doctrines taught by Scripture are rejected. For, in mentioning that Justification by Faith Alone (JBFA) goes out the window in connection with embracing church authority, he admits that JBFA is actually taught by Scripture.

Here is the quote, from YouTube.

We do have points of commonality that are interesting, especially when we compare to Protestant denominations, the ecclesial communities that came from the Protestant Reformation. So much so, that even you yourself could borrow some material that I might use, others might use, in engaging some things, such as things we reject, for example, like rejecting the Doctrine of Sola Scripture.

Well, honestly, I think the biggest thing is that, why Mormons and Catholics find a lot of common ground, is that LDS and Catholics both believe that Christ intended to establish an authoritative, hierarchical church that has the capacity to bind and loose doctrine for believers, to be able to speak in authoritative pronouncements: that there is this one church that Christ established to be served by the successors of the apostles; and to have this apostolic succession, to maintain a ministerial priesthood.

So there’s a very similar ecclesiology there, that especially for low church Protestants — Baptists, certain Reformed Protestants — is very very far afield for them. So you have that agreement in ecclesiology which, from that, you also will get things like rejecting the doctrine of Sola Scripture, rejecting Sola Fide — justification by faith alone. So that does create a fair amount of common ground there…

Here are the takeaways just from this short speech:

  • for apostolic succession, it is not necessary to have an actual continuity to the apostles via the laying on of hands
  • the form hierarchical church is more important than that form having the correct content
  • Justification by Faith Alone would follow from scripture alone
  • but it doesn’t matter that JBFA is taught by scripture, since having church authority — any “church” — is far more important, even when used to deny truths taught by Scripture!

I don’t think this is just Trent Horn. I suspect this is a dark shadow behind all the Catholic Youtube apologists if they would speak so candidly.

OPC elders propose replacing Mt. 18 with public hectoring

There is a blog in which one Aimee Byrd successfully summons a posse of OPC cavalry to round up and arrest some boys that allegedly said some mean things about her on a private Facebook chat group. Apparently there was a spy that took a bunch of screenshots of the mean things and broadcast them. Now Miss Aimee is on the warpath and wants people to lose their jobs and/or be ecclesiastically disciplined. Continue reading →

Greenville Seminary ready to recommend closing churches to beat on pots and pans

The first response of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary to the Corona virus on Apr 3, 2020 (later they posted several others, some much better) shows just how weak the modern church has become: indeed, the shuttering of the churches can well be modeled as us being hoist on our own petard in allowing such leaders. Continue reading →

Brief Intermission: Tribute to Greg Bahnsen

A brief side-bar is needed in this autobiographical sketch of life-changing books. Spanning the interval 1983-1993, no single book stands out, but that was the period of my association with my dear friend and mentor Greg Bahnsen. Though I am avoiding mentioning names in this bookish auto-biography, his needs to be mentioned as the greatest single personal influence on my life in adulthood.

In view of that, it will perhaps be thought odd that I do not count any of his books as life-changing. Indeed, I found many of his books pedantic, even annoying. We had opposite tendencies at the aesthetic level. It is hard for me to imagine anyone becoming a Theonomist through reading Theonomy or its sequels. Then again, he may have felt the same way. Theonomy was actually a comparatively small part of his life, less in fact (by way of negation) than for many of his vitriolic opponents.

One of his teachings that drove deeply into my soul was the ramified implications of Matt. 18. Beyond the obvious three-fold “method” taught there for correcting offenses, Greg taught that even if you have a legitimate grievance, if the way you got to this point was via gossip, slander, tale-bearing, or prevarication, then you had to first go back and fix those errors before “continuing.” The putative grievance had to be left on the table until those errors were dealt with properly. Often, it turned out that the grievance all but vanished by the time those steps were taken — or at least, could be covered in love. What this taught me was that Matt. 18 is not some bureaucratic “manual of discipline,” but something much deeper: an insight into what it means to be human, and to be a human with integrity. The requirements of privacy and caution are not just little nuisances, but go to the heart of the matter. I have continued to develop this theme and hope to write on it anon.

Twice I turned against him. Both times, God gave me the heart to seek reconciliation, and Greg was gracious in a way that was itself life-changing. When I came to him the second time, I was moved to the core by his statement that the whole purpose of his ministry for the previous ten years may well have been, in God’s providence, just to set the stage for that moment. And afterwards, my offenses were never mentioned or remembered.

I will not try to summarize all the many ways he changed my life. That has come out before and will continue to do so. In summary, I will simply say he was a man of a great heart. Indeed, in the divine comedy, the literal heart ailment that killed him well before the age of 50 can be taken as a metaphor for his life. Like our Lord, he can be said to have died of a broken heart.

Buchenwald Inmate #2491: Christian martyr

Paul Schneider was a German Reformed minister whose early ministry coincided with the ascendancy of the National Socialist movement in the 1930s. His critique of the folk’s movement in view of the Word of God as well as a series of stands for the independent rights of the church vis-à-vis the state led to continual conflicts with Party functionaries, and penalties of increasing severity. At length, the conflict culminated in consignment to the concentration camp at Buchenwald, where his life ended. Continue reading →